Hi guys!

[evenstar]

I'm new to this forum although i have been on tortoiseforum.org - I'd thought I'd join up here as I need a bit of british advice about vets and brands and things. This might be a bit of a long winded post!

First of all an introduction- I'm evenstar, and my tortoises are both Hermanns; Tallis (3yo- possibly female) and Mini(2ishyo- possibly male). I know a few RL tort. owners who might be registered here, so if you recognise me, please don't out me.

I've joined because of Mini, so called because despite being purchased with Tallis at a year old, he was always much much smaller, and had the measurements of a tort not much older than a hatchling, which is why I suspect him to be younger. Now Mini is an escape artist of the truest form- over the 2009/10 winter he hibernated without permission when I had them out in on the last warm day in October. Despite being closely supervised (I was aware of the risks of putting them out this late) he did his vanishing act and I didn't see him again till April, happy as larry.

To explain what happened this year, I need to explain about my outdoor enclosure. It's filled with your standard tortoise bits and bobs - plants, basking slabs, hides etc, and has a well dug in border around three edges of it, the fourth being the brick wall of our garage. The only go out on warm days when I can sit next to it with a book and keep an eye on them for most of the time - perhaps a bit paranoid, but like I said, Mini loves to escape.

One day early last September, one of my brothers left a cricket bat leaned against the garage, which fell where the tort. border and the garage meet. Apparently I hadn't dug this bit in well because a gap opened up, just big enough for a sideways Mini to get out. All of this happened in the space of about an hour, when I was pottering around in the garden. I feel so responsible for his escape, and have had some awful dreams about digging up half alive tortoises etc. Especially after that awful winter we had this year.

Today I was gardening in the front garden (a good thirty metres away from the enclosure, with opportunities to get out into the neighbours garden and the road all around) and there was this teeny tiny dirty little thing, but unmistakably my Mini. I really wasn't expecting to find her, what with the winter and how early he disappeared. The second shock was how tiny he is - he's missed out on all the growth Tallis has done over the winter (I didn't hibernate her), and the one before. The difference now is staggering.

Since I found him this afternoon, Mini has had three five-ten minute baths in shallow luke-warm water, in which he has moved a little and opened his eyes briefly. The lids are quite swollen but the actual eyes are dark and clear. He had a little to eat after his last bath, but still hasn't done his white poo which is worrying me. His underbelly has just a little bit of give to it if pressed gently.

He's got his own little make-shift set up at the moment, he's too tiny to be in with Tallis. He has all the essentials (basking stone, hide, heat lamp, food(with nutrobal), cuttlefish, water, bright light, little thingy of limestone flour, play sand and top soil substrate) in a toy box in my room, and is at the moment staying firmly under the heat. I stole the lights from Tallis's tort table for the night, she'll have to cope until I can get some more tomorrow!

So really I'm posting because I need some advice - is there anything else I need to be doing or change? What about the white poo? Also, does anyone know where I can find a reptile vet - I've read you need specialist ones for reptiles, or will my normal vet do? I've read on the other forum about a cream you can get for tort. eyes if they might have damage, teramycin - do we have an english equivalent? At the moment I'm hoping his belly will firm up with proper lighting and nutrition - do I need to be doing more for him?

I hope I'm not coming across as a bad tort. owner, I really do care about them a lot and try and do my best for them. Ok this, was pretty long winded, thank you for reading!

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by evenstar

So really I'm posting because I need some advice - is there anything else I need to be doing or change? What about the white poo? Also, does anyone know where I can find a reptile vet - I've read you need specialist ones for reptiles, or will my normal vet do? I've read on the other forum about a cream you can get for tort. eyes if they might have damage, teramycin - do we have an english equivalent? At the moment I'm hoping his belly will firm up with proper lighting and nutrition - do I need to be doing more for him?

regarding the reptile vet, it depends where you live really. one in edinburgh might be no use if you lived for example in the isle of man.

quite a few people have had torts go missing then reappear after the winter or even a year or two. my brother's tort was missing for 5 years and survived.

I don't know about the cream but possibly a regular vet would know

[TortBabe]

Hello and welcome I imagine you were delighted to see Mini back again I have a Horsefield tort not too long up from fridge hibernation, the first week I bathed him twice daily for 30 minutes, it only took 2 days for his urates (white poos) to come through. I think hibernation is sooooo good for them, its best to grow tortoises slowly, and in captivity we tend to overfeed them, don't worry if he is much smaller than your other, they are all different. If you are worried about his shell being soft provide him with a dish of limestone flour (available from animal feed shops or ebay) and cuttlefish, and of course nutrobal. Congrats on having your wee escape artist back, you may want to Mini-proof your outdoor enclosure before you put him back out
P.s Nobody will think you are a bad owner, you are in the right place here to find out everything you need to know about torts

[evenstar]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Tort-Babe- Mini has limestone flour and cuttlefish bone available all the time, although he much prefers cuttlefish (many a morning I have been woken up by that awful scraping sound!). I have Mini-proofed the enclosure in his absence, but then again I thought I had the last time. Either way, I wont be putting him out until he looks a bit happier and will endeavour to think like an escape-artist tortoise until then. Speaking of overweight, do you/ does anyone know where I can find a weight/length chart for Tallis and Mini?


Caledonia- That's amazing about your brother's tortoise! With regards to vets, I live in Norfolk and have had a quick google for reptile specialist vets but I really don't know how to tell.

[evenstar]

oh ignore that last bit about length/weight, just found it

[jandh]

Hello and welcome , i have a few friends who always let there tortoises dig down for the winter and they let them reappear march and april . I also have a escape artist tort who i always have to search for hours in the garden to put him to bed at night , i often have to dig up half of my garden to find him . Keep up the warm baths , dont panic ,and give calcium , cuttlefish . im sure more advice will be along soon x julia xxxx

[EJ]

The white stuff ... urates... is usually one sign of dehydration. If the pellets are white... I have to ask if you have any cats in the area or limestone substrate?

To get some size and weight on him look into any of the formulated diets such as Komodo, T-Rex, Pretty pets, Mazuri... this will get him going quickly and with the greatest health benefit.

[kkenny]

What a lovely story, dont think you are a bad owner at all!

I have George a 2yr old Herman who weights 61g in case you were interested.

Best of luck for onwards!

[clevency]

Hi
Noticed you mentioned your based in Norfolk. There are three very knowledagble vets in the area which are used regular by tortoise keepers.

All Creatures Health Care Ltd - Tortoise Friendly Vets in Horsford near Norwich
www.allcreatureshealthcare.co.uk

Upland Way Vets - Tortoise Friendly Vets in Diss and Attleborough
www.uplandswayvets.co.uk

Terrington Veterinary Centre - Tortoise friendly Vets near Kings Lynn
www.terringtonvets.co.uk

Hope thsi is helpful. Norfolk tortoise club is also very active and run events, workshops, meetings etc www.tortoiseclub.org

Regards Eleanor.

Originally Posted by evenstar

Thanks for the replies guys.

Tort-Babe- Mini has limestone flour and cuttlefish bone available all the time, although he much prefers cuttlefish (many a morning I have been woken up by that awful scraping sound!). I have Mini-proofed the enclosure in his absence, but then again I thought I had the last time. Either way, I wont be putting him out until he looks a bit happier and will endeavour to think like an escape-artist tortoise until then. Speaking of overweight, do you/ does anyone know where I can find a weight/length chart for Tallis and Mini?


Caledonia- That's amazing about your brother's tortoise! With regards to vets, I live in Norfolk and have had a quick google for reptile specialist vets but I really don't know how to tell.

[Petrus]

Originally Posted by EJ

The white stuff ... urates... is usually one sign of dehydration. If the pellets are white... I have to ask if you have any cats in the area or limestone substrate?

To get some size and weight on him look into any of the formulated diets such as Komodo, T-Rex, Pretty pets, Mazuri... this will get him going quickly and with the greatest health benefit.

I thought urates were only a problem if they were gritty????