Changes in EU/ Cites Regulations

[Geomyda]

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...11:0032:EN:PDF
Any thoughts, on possible consequences?

[Kirkie]

I agree. The inclusion of ranched/farmed specimens on the list doesn't make sense in a conservation perspective unless they have suspicions over the practise. I really don't think the commercial breeding of Aldabra's falls into this category, maybe there is a motive beyond conservation.

[EJ]

The point I'm making is that they don't know the origin... so how can they control/regulate it. It seems really silly to me to be that specific... and the one point I made the Aldabra is not native to the seychells... is another wierd point. Why protect an animal that is not native to the area.

Ironicly... That seems to be a common practice... protecting introduced species. That just blows my mind. Does anyone else see the irony in that?

Originally Posted by Kirkie

I agree. The inclusion of ranched/farmed specimens on the list doesn't make sense in a conservation perspective unless they have suspicions over the practise. I really don't think the commercial breeding of Aldabra's falls into this category, maybe there is a motive beyond conservation.

[Kirkie]

As G says, they're going to go by the county of export on the import/export documentation. They were shipping thousands of Horsfields out of the Ukraine every year and theres no endemic population. I reckon they're nailing the lid shut on hubs where x amount of countries supply specimens to for export.

Aldabra's, I don't know enough about. Didn't they refuse introduction somewhere in the seychelles?.

[EJ]

Gerlich... started some stuff on that.

Russians... if they don't occur in the Ukrane... why protect them there?

That's kind of the point I'm trying to make.

Aldabras are bred in quite large numbers in the Seychells... and exported.

Originally Posted by Kirkie

As G says, they're going to go by the county of export on the import/export documentation. They were shipping thousands of Horsfields out of the Ukraine every year and theres no endemic population. I reckon they're nailing the lid shut on hubs where x amount of countries supply specimens to for export.

Aldabra's, I don't know enough about. Didn't they refuse introduction somewhere in the seychelles?.

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by EJ

Gerlich... started some stuff on that.

Russians... if they don't occur in the Ukrane... why protect them there?

That's kind of the point I'm trying to make.

Aldabras are bred in quite large numbers in the Seychells... and exported.

Ed, I think you know Jim Collins? If you do suggest that you correspond with him on this latest regulation.

[Kirkie]

I didn't see many chelonian species listed that aren't being captive bred in the EU, Aldabras a possible exception.*I think the ban on wild caught Star, Horsfields and Homes hingeback is a timely one.

[egyptiandan64]

Not sure if it will really help With the Stars they only list Pakistan and not India and Bangladesh. With the Horsfields they only list one country (Kazakhstan). With Home's hingebacks they list 2 countries, Benin and Togo. With Bell's hingebacks they list 2 countries Benin and Mozambique. They are all found in more countries than that, so not sure if it will help as they didn't do all.

Danny

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by egyptiandan64

Not sure if it will really help With the Stars they only list Pakistan and not India and Bangladesh. With the Horsfields they only list one country (Kazakhstan). With Home's hingebacks they list 2 countries, Benin and Togo. With Bell's hingebacks they list 2 countries Benin and Mozambique. They are all found in more countries than that, so not sure if it will help as they didn't do all.

Danny

Of course Danny, the other anomaly is this is an EU regulation so some of these species will still of course be legally shipped to the USA, Japan and I suspect increasingly China.
Whilst I have no problem with implementation of CITES rules for conservation reasons, it seems this situation just will create further complication and possible loopholes for efficient enforcement.
It would be very interesting to hear the views on the UK CITES enforcement team on this new regulation?
Personally, I suspect it may well lead to an increase in confiscations of shipments as they pass through our Borders.

[Kirkie]

Possible the EU have done their homework and pinpointed key distribution points rather than home countries for the species mentioned.

I was puzzled by the blanket ban on Cuora as I don't see how it helps their wild status aside from allowing the EU to enter a plea of "not guilty" as the steadily go extinct.