Pre Alpin Testudo

[Kirkie]

Originally Posted by seeshells

I'm still not convinvced of the logic of shipping this Pre Alpin stuff here, paying the not inconsiderable costs when it isn't a nutritionally analysed diet. It's just a collection of good sounding stuff which as shown from that link
to JR farm foods can be built up yourself for a less money and without the interational shipping.
You could even buy it here: http://www.shelledwarriorsshop.co.uk...eeds-173-c.asp
Select a few dried herbs and grass pellets and stuf and cut out the middle man. I'd still give it a try of course, but if y'r keen on an engineered food then perhaps adding nutritionally designed pellets from the likes of Komodo might be a better bet.

Im sure you could put your own mix together, I dry my own weeds as well but have 23 mouths to feed. As before Im not looking for a " complete diet".

[Kirkie]

Originally Posted by EJ

Haven't seen any photos of the animals raised on this stuff.

Neither have I Ed. My god, do you think they're being kept hidden for a reason?

[EJ]

I would think that if you are trying to promote a product you might want to show the result of that product.

I also don't understand why you would shell out that kind of money for a diet that is not even close to complete.

Originally Posted by Kirkie

Neither have I Ed. My god, do you think they're being kept hidden for a reason?

[jonesy]

I grow a lot of plants on my allotment for my tortoises and would like to dry some for my leopards, redfoots for next winter feeds. What is the best way to dry them please, especially when you have a large amount.
thanks

[Alan1]

I'm always a bit dubious about trying to replicate the wild when the torts are actually in captivity. It can't really be done so I do wonder if the best option is to try to mimic it as much as possible or just forget it completely and treat the torts as if they are kept in captivity instead. Almost everything is a substitute for the wild anyway, hibernation methods, feeding, breeding, daylight, heat, supplements, cuttlefish bone . They are all in fact a million miles from what they are in the wild. Even Pre Alpin is an attempt at wild food but at the end of the day it's food for captivity. It might be very good though, I'm not trying to say it's not

[NATURALIS]

might be worth a try though Alan, its better than pumping aditives into them and at least its natural food !, i can send you a sample in the new year if you like.

[EJ]

Still looking for those photos of tortoises raised on this diet and some insight as to how you raised that wonderful looking tortoise from hatchling on up. That would not only be helpful to me but to others as well.

[yuna1971]

From seeing Chris's pic..I only want to say this, not for debate or anything like that. Probably a bit off topic I suppose but just wanted to say what I feel.
Lily has a bumpy shell. And I take full responsibility for that happening.
I keep saying to myself if only I had known about what foods I should feed and not feed - what foods contained high levels of this, or what foods lacked that and of course taking the time to make sure he was well hydrated, and watched the amount I was feeding - then maybe he wouldnt have got to the bumpy shell and indeed grown so fast.
I hold my hands up for this. And from seeing Chris's pics, and probably that you all have of nice smooth torts (not to say that they are all that way) it makes me realise those mistakes, and wish that I could have done things different.
Saying 'if only' and having hindsight is no use to me now. But I just wanted to say that I think it is a credit to all of you that you achieved this.
Ok, we are not going to mimic the wild in its exact form - probably not with diet, housing, light, warmth, - they are in captivity with human interaction, no matter what is fed. But all we can do is our best with what we have, or else we might as well give up and start sending ships and planes out and put them back in their natural origin.
I cant say for sure that the Pre Alpen cobs are the bee's knees. I havent been using them for long. But, and possibly I might dare speak for any owner overwintering at the moment - winter is SCARY when theres not much about naturally growing to feed. If you havent used either method before - that in itself is a zone that we havent even thought about, anxiety can take over, we panic. From my own standpoint, not sure about others - its a means to an end. Im not trying to replicate 'the wild'. Im not trying to make an experiment. Im not trying to feed this all year round and write the results down. I am simply trying something else, as I cant get anything decent freshly growing in my area. It really is , to me anyway, a short term solution.
I would much prefer having a carrier bag of lots of proper weeds. But they arent about, so thats the end of that. So as I cant, I have to think of other measures.
I do have the Komodo pellets. I know that Lily wolfs these down. So its not like I am against this idea either. I am trying the cobs, as I liked what I read. Doesnt mean to say that others will, or that Lily will even sniff at them come next year. He is gradually eating more each time I offer it. But if come next year when fresh weeds are about then I wont have the need to keep offering.
A means to an end. Thats all it is. I will continue to offer but also with other foods like rommaine, butternut squash - really anything that is half decent. I know its not the best...but for me, its about trying to keep things ticking along through this tough winter period.
This thread is a good one. I just wish that I could turn back time...(for myself) and maybe I could have done better with Lily when I first got him. You all might debate this thread but believe me, you all have helped me more than you know. Thats all I wanted to say. xx Thanks guys.

[joanna]

Originally Posted by red foot marg

might be worth a try though Alan, its better than pumping aditives into them and at least its natural food !, i can send you a sample in the new year if you like.

Got to ask, if this is your thoughts on a complete pellet diet why do you feed them to your RFs? Also seeing the pic of the tortoises that you've raised from hatchlings I can't work out why you would be considering adding or changing anything about the diet you've been using for the last 8 years, they are very nice and well grown.

I don't have anything to input about the Pre Alpin as I don't keep Testudo species, but I see Seeshells point that if it is the route some want to take why not use the dried weeds readily available to buy here. I think I would choose this route if wanting to add dried weeds as you could ensure a higher proportion of weeds to grasses. The Pre Alpin seems to have alot of grasses.

[Alan1]

What I meant was .. in the wild they only survive, barely at that but in captivity they can thrive not just survive so it does make me wonder why there is this obsession with replicating the wild and the thought that because it's the wild it's definitely the best way of doing things. Most if not all the torts we have now have never seen the wild.

I kept tropical fish for 20 years and the fish that were captive bred were far removed from the wild caught fish of the same breed, they were much easier to keep, were able to adapt to a wider range of water Ph and were easier to breed. If you tried to reverse that and breed and rear the fish only in the same water quality and fed the same things as they would get in the wild then that is the tricky bit, that's when they get ill and die because it's very very difficult to do. Angel fish for example will live in anything from a Ph of 6 to 8 but wild caught Angels will only survive in your tank at Ph 5.5

Again, that's not to say there's anything wrong with feeding Alpin, it's not exactly a natural product anyway and might be very useful