Tortoise Garden- update

[Alan1]

This bit below. Completely misleading. Yes they would probably die if they were Sulcata, Redfoot or Leopard tortoises but he doesn't say that does he? There are many examples of Med torts living here in the wild for years and turning up again. If they can do it here in Scotland and down in Romney they can do it in Cornwall. MP's love to latch on to these things that are in the public eye.

"My argument with Cornwall Council is look, if you take tortoises and put them in the wild they die. They have to be looked after by people, that means they're domesticated."

*The MP may have been asked for help but they like to take all the credit in a win, they use it at the next election, we had the same here with ours. Self promotion

[Pussygalore]

many tort/turtle species are capable of living in the wild if they are old and big enough but I don't think any will hatch in our climate. I think most animals which escape are only considered a threat if they can breed or are capable of killing or breeding with our own native species. A lone tort would simply live out its days/years and die

[RacingSnake]

Originally Posted by Pussygalore

.... I don't think any will hatch in our climate. ..

There was a post on here a couple of months back where a random 'new' hatchling was found in garden, seemingly the female had laid, the eggs hatched and the hatchlings seemed to be surviving ok

[Geomyda]

Domesticated; It has been said on this forum before, that the first authentic record of a pet Tortoise, dates back to the early 1600's. The then Bishop of London, had his pet tortoise living in his kitchen garden. This animal, is reputed to have lived for close to 100 years.
It maybe, that it has only been during the last few decades, that captive reproduction has become common place, but even in that relatively short period there are examples of third generation domestication in captivity.
As such, the example of the Tortoise predates the humble Hamster by nearly four hundred years.
The real point made by the MP, is the fact that Tortoise should be considered domesticated and thus falls outside the remit of Zoo licensing. I am sure, the numerous rodent/ rabbit / guinea pig sanctuaries, welcome the fact they do not get caught up in this bureaucratic nonsense.

[justmeandmytortoise]

Originally Posted by Geomyda

Domesticated; It has been said on this forum before, that the first authentic record of a pet Tortoise, dates back to the early 1600's. The then Bishop of London, had his pet tortoise living in his kitchen garden. This animal, is reputed to have lived for close to 100 years.
It maybe, that it has only been during the last few decades, that captive reproduction has become common place, but even in that relatively short period there are examples of third generation domestication in captivity.
As such, the example of the Tortoise predates the humble Hamster by nearly four hundred years. .......

I have always been fascinated with the first known tortoise and enjoyed reading these articles in the News -

"Researchers have found the earliest archaeological evidence of a tortoise being kept as a family pet in Britain, at a castle in Staffordshire.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10574385

The find, which is reported in the journal Post Medieval Archaeology, dates to the late 19th Century.

There has been evidence of turtles and terrapins in domestic situations dating back to the 17th Century - but it was believed that these animals were used for food."

Other reports
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...hotograph.html

[Chris Newman]

Originally Posted by justmeandmytortoise

I have always been fascinated with the first known tortoise and enjoyed reading these articles in the News -

"Researchers have found the earliest archaeological evidence of a tortoise being kept as a family pet in Britain, at a castle in Staffordshire.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10574385

The find, which is reported in the journal Post Medieval Archaeology, dates to the late 19th Century.

There has been evidence of turtles and terrapins in domestic situations dating back to the 17th Century - but it was believed that these animals were used for food."

Other reports
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...hotograph.html

The first know record of a tortoise being kept as a pet is by William Laud, Bishop of London, he purchased a Spur-Thighed Tortoise in 1625. Eight years later he became the Archbishop of Canterbury and the tortoise moved with him to Lambeth Palace, where it lived for another 120 years. The shell is still on display at Lambeth Palace today.

In the 17th & 18th centuries the Dutch East India Company was the main supplier of reptiles & other exotic livestock, including tortoises, imported into Europe through the port at Amsterdam, where they constructed special holding facilities. They also constructed a depot and holding facility at the Cape of Good Hope in South Africa, which operated until 1832.

I have no records of tortoises commonly being used as food, although I am sure they were to some extent. However, all records I have uncovered are as pets, so since the 1700’s tortoises have been kept as ‘domestic pets’!

[Chris Newman]

Originally Posted by caledonia

This bit below. Completely misleading. Yes they would probably die if they were Sulcata, Redfoot or Leopard tortoises but he doesn't say that does he? There are many examples of Med torts living here in the wild for years and turning up again. If they can do it here in Scotland and down in Romney they can do it in Cornwall. MP's love to latch on to these things that are in the public eye.

"My argument with Cornwall Council is look, if you take tortoises and put them in the wild they die. They have to be looked after by people, that means they're domesticated."

*The MP may have been asked for help but they like to take all the credit in a win, they use it at the next election, we had the same here with ours. Self promotion

I have no records of tortoises commonly being used as food, although I am sure they were to some extent. However, all records I have uncovered are as pets, so since the 1700’s tortoises have been kept as ‘domestic pets’!

[Bindi]

Originally Posted by RacingSnake

There was a post on here a couple of months back where a random 'new' hatchling was found in garden, seemingly the female had laid, the eggs hatched and the hatchlings seemed to be surviving ok

I think it was Chris' ( Redfootmarg)

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by Chris Newman

I have no records of tortoises commonly being used as food, although I am sure they were to some extent. However, all records I have uncovered are as pets, so since the 1700’s tortoises have been kept as ‘domestic pets’!

Now there you go, you have given a far more reasonable explanation of why you would consider tortoises to be domestic pets, you should show the council the records and they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Slightly different to the one the MP gave on telly ..

"My argument with Cornwall Council is look, if you take tortoises and put them in the wild they die. They have to be looked after by people, that means they're domesticated."

You could apply his theory to many zoo animals

[Chris Newman]

Originally Posted by caledonia

Now there you go, you have given a far more reasonable explanation of why you would consider tortoises to be domestic pets, you should show the council the records and they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Slightly different to the one the MP gave on telly ..

"My argument with Cornwall Council is look, if you take tortoises and put them in the wild they die. They have to be looked after by people, that means they're domesticated."

You could apply his theory to many zoo animals

Cornwall Council is very well aware of this information and have still decided not to define a tortoise as a ‘domestic pet’! However, If we look at Syrian hamsters they first came to the UK in 1931, the Council conceder them as domestic pets, but tortoises that arrived in 1625 not, is that not a little curious!

I think the MP’s comments may have been a little clumsy, but is perfectly valid, as was the rest of the information he relayed – primarily that the Council were empowered to define what is or is not a domestic pet in their opinion, something which is rather important.